It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. There is no dark magic involved. The formats that is used in comparison test is all 16bit / 44.1KHz, not DSD The Result : 1st : Select DAC II Full Option - 100% 2nd : Trinity DAC - 90% To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. As a contented Qutest user, I would have hoped for "improved", performance from the Dave. Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. Complete electrical isolation Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. Our publication is supported by its audience. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it dac at a reasonable price. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. However, to get this level of separation and detail within the soundscape the DAC is clearly having a very important role to play. and this is borne out in the sound that this DAC brings to the party. Thanks. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. Less experience with Dave on DSD, plus Rob claims to no longer decimate. Is it too hot to touch? You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their What else should one expect? Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. home system and listening for that end result. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. comparing top dacs directly is a bit challenging, even if you have them both together. Unfortunately not, I'm going the second hand route as I've done with most of my setup. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. Then just stay with the basic Premier unit, and the power supply that comes with it. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. Thanks for the suggestions Wisnon. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. I hear the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty gives the DAVE a run for its money at $8950 but that is just hearsay. Up to 4X DSD in this forum and they are all very good dacs. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. and build quality is also excellent. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. With the Bartok now quite a few $$$ more, the Tambaqui represents a fantastic price v performance ratio that would be at home in most highly resolving systems. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. The PM2 is very special. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Pass Labs INT-60. Good points by all. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. DAVE is perfect for headphone system because you can save space and money of headphone amplifier. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Amplification: Cyrus Mono x300Signatures. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. Regardless if the buyer has never auditioned the unit, and found it corresponding to, Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / Empirical Audio reclocking system: Synchro-Mesh Reclocker driven by Dynamo Linear Power Supply, 2 x Reference BNC digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (LIM) DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors, on Sound Anchors Signature stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers / Cables: ZenWave Audio D4 interconnects, ZenWave SMSG speaker cables / Diverse Herbie's Audio Lab footers / Acoustic treatment: Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties (wool, polypropylene basketweave), Sure absolutely agree that paying that much money without auditioning (preferably in my house, with my own equipment, in my room) does not make much sense. That's just too money for the performance. digital front ends. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. JavaScript is disabled. As you pursue higher levels of playback, an MSB upgrade path is always available to help drive your own desire for innovation. An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, the FPGA handles digital processing only, not conversion from digital to analog. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. Rori is definitely welcome. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. conversation. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? Then we have the Integrated Clock module and Im starting to get the whole modular approach to the design of the MSB DAC. Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. luxury apartment hotels paris. But if you don't, what is your reference point? We used PCM (16/44,1 to 24/192) and DSD 64 and 128 for the comparioson. How does it compare? Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. For the most part, I listened to the MSB through our LAB12 and Krell KST100 amps and TotalDAC D100 speakers. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. - Meat Loaf. Congratulations on the upgrade and enjoy it in good health. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Let us do the work of refurbishing and finding your current electronics a new hometheyll continue to be enjoyed for years to come. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. The world's largest high-end audio community. The DAC comes equipped with a single power supply, but can be augmented with a second discrete power supply to enable optimized power isolation between all major components. DAVE stands for 'Digital to Analogue Veritas in Extremis', a moniker that best reflects the product's . CHORD Dave could be the most expensive deeply design DAC in the world and if you find it not your taste there is the best off the shelf DACs like akm4499 in Topping D90 for 699$ that could be even better than Dave. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. And differences at that level can be good. To build a simple and good system). You might want to consideradding oneof Chord's Upscalers, either HugoM scaler, or the Blu Mk. Looking forward to the your additions to the list. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. I havent heard the Rockna. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. I would just add budget and the other components in the system are major factors to consider. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? Since opening our doors in 1986, weve been driven by one goal: to craft an unrivaled listening experience for music lovers across the globe. How hot does the Chord DAC get? The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. You already have a very top tier DAC. - MQA decoding. Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. Ill go through the modules included in the Discrete DAC and explain a little about each. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. The end users ears are the only ears that count. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? Thank you all for your answers. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. personal preference." Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. The other thing I've learned about the Chord Dave is it can sound very different depending on the interconnect and/or power cord used. Also, it is worth noting I heard the v1 DAC 2X, not the v2. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). MSBs top-level DAC is 121K and there are other brands out there offering very expensive options, but the truth is that the vast majority of people will never feel the need to spend that kind of money (even if they could) to eek out that last-minute bit of detail. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. And yes, you can improve it more by adding nice power source and cable. I believe it comes down to Main Menu II cannot do anything but award this DAC our highest award, but that award goes with the caveats that it should be used directly into an amplifier and that Id like to have had the options for analogue inputs. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. Click here to download your copy, At 11000 plus taxes as tested the Lampizator Big 7 is certainly no budget DAC, but does it deliver on sonic ability? I expected a lot better. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. My wife said it The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Sit back and be immersed. By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies. Strangely, this new review is not displayed when you select the review folder on the homepage. I can see the problem with this unit. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. The other issue is preference. @shkong78 Thanks for sharing your listening impressions of the Lampizator Pacific vs the MSB DACs as well as what you miss about the Pacific vs your Chord combo. It is just as important as the DAC itself. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. Out of all of the DACs I've Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). so these are less preferred. I think people buy what they like. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. By Vega DAC 6/10 As dynamic as the Weiss, but a little too edgy in sound emphasised presence made female voices a bit hard on the ear. MSB Technology's Discrete DAC was the best DAC I'd heard in my systemuntil the MSB Premier showed up. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the Cheers @Stereophilus The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. It seems to me that manufacturers are jacking up the price for the perception of quality. T&A Dac8 (for DSD512) or Lampi Atlantic for any native rate DSD playback. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. But the majority of the time all 6 of Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. What ice cream do you prefer? Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. Others might disagree but these are my findings. The jump from Six to Seven is rather large. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. First let me preface my comments by stating that I have not heard a lot of high end DACs in my system. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Will do. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". I've also learned that a DAC's performance will depend heavily on the music player. Like the Lab12. Sign up for a new account in our community. After reading that review, and remembering the reverence APL had back in the day, alongside the Stahl Tek and Trinity dacs that were the heavy hitters 10-15 yrs ago, I was just curious as to whether .