mountain lions in new hampshire

We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Is that typically what was happening there. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. David Erler says some of them probably have. Chartered: 1973 . Peter Biello: There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. The second one was not only fresh but when I actually put my hand on it it was you know smelled like cat and I it's there's no denying a fresh mountain lions get if you can tell it every story that KOAT. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Caller: I do. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. Is this kind of a typical story. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. I didn't see him online. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. I'll send it to you. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. The Lions of New Hampshire: MD44 Links. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. So take care of this problem. There were several sightings in CT over the last few months. They used to roam the entire continent, but have become extinct in most US states. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Here it is. Peter Biello: Wow. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. We'll be right back. Yeah I did. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. I think that you probably are. Select image for larger view. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Yes and you want to share what you learned. There wasn't a distinct subspecies the North American mountain lion is all is all one species and then you can find a genetically distinct South American subspecies. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . Thank you. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. New Hampshire Public Radio | But no proof was offered. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. Really appreciate it. Sort of dropped onto the SD card of a camera he'd set up out in the wild. How far were you from this cat. Thank you very much for being here. What's going on. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. So they're scary. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Thanks for calling. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Give today. Enable JavaScript by changing your browser options, and then try again. Can you look into this picture. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Caller: Absolutely. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. They kill big animals. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. I found a second scat scent both to him. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Sam. Thanks for a great thanks. By Eric Orff. Phone number 1 800. So that did it for me. There's no attraction. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Can we go to the site. Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. I mean it wasn't your idea. Good morning guys. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. There was no sign of it. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. So. I tracked cats and all the western states. So it's six months of a large large predatory animal that moves great distances on the landscape that is not known if it went northeast west Salt and how many circles it did. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. Just. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. 44-N Links. Well I can't tell you what you saw. 1957. We are the second most-forested state in the country, and those forests can be impenetrable snarls (part of why the Northeast is notoriously a difficult place to hunt deer), and while there are people in a lot of those woods, because the cats have been absent for a few generations now, most of those people dont know what a cougar scrape or latrine look and smell like. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. We'd love to have you in the queue. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. 1,470 likes. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Rick van de Poll: Well the mountain lion of course has been sort of an enigma in the wildlife suite for years and years. New Hampshire Public Radio | Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. The trouble with accepting every reported sighting as a confirmed mountain lion is that there are so many mistaken identifications. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Patrick Tate: Okay. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. I don't know if she still is. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. Numerous scat and fur specimens have been turned in as part of mountain lion report investigations; DNA identification has shown these submitted samples to be from domestic dog, coyote, bobcat andraccoon. It doesn't happen as much anymore. She is renowned for tracking. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Nicholas Handy can be reached at 924-7172 ext. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. Sandy Hodskins, owner of West Meadow Farm in Bradford, New Hampshire, took time from shoveling Wednesday to enjoy the snow with her horse, West Wind. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. If so that's for us as an agency. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. We're not in the woods. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. There was a lot of DNA evidence. So what a neat experience. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. And we want to know your stories if you have them 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 or email exchange at an HP bar dot org we'll talk about conspiracy theories when we come back. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. Patrick Tate: Well. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Residents Report Mountain Lion Sighting By Elysia Rodriguez Published August 11, 2015 A southern New Hampshire neighborhood believes a mountain lion is roaming the woods near their homes. Peter Biello: Yeah. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. Tell us your story. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Give today. John thanks. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. What do you think that. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. This is not the same as saying that there has never been a mountain lion seen in New Hampshire. Over a period of a year and a half, this Mountain Lion left DNA evidence in at least four states. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Well they are the same. And it was unmistakable. Yes. They don't know the direction they're going. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Theres tracks everywhere. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Seems reasonable! I mean they're a survivor. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. But you've done some reporting on this. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! Have it reported down in the Keene area. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. Tim Yeah. Patrick Tate: So it's very typical. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. Have a photo. Let us know your story and share your photos. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. They're just moving around freely. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. We want answers. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. So one thing I'll add. Rick van de Poll: Yes. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Absolutely. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Peter Biello: So let's say Rick that it was confirmed that there that there are mountain lines here in New Hampshire. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Mountain lions can be found throughout Arizona, and data suggests the populations are not only stable, but growing. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. This is the exchange. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. On a dirt road. The 17-year-old Kiger mustang mare was born in Bend, Oregon, said Hodskins, who got her . And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Your support makes this news available to everyone. I'm Peter Biello. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. So Michael follows with the question. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. And it's not really strong. N.H. And listeners this has been a lively conversation we're sorry we didn't get to all the the e-mailed comments and the phone calls your stories are appreciated even if we didn't get a chance to hear them today. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Peter Biello: Ok. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. 19 For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. Peter Biello: Or send us an email exchange at an HP board. Well within there. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire.